redditalpha logoredditalpha
← Back to dashboard
Share
1100%
r/valueinvestingr/valueinvesting· u/JamesWardVI· 5d agoDiscussion 0

Most investors misuse "circle of competence" here's what it actually means in practice

Investor summaryNeutral

Practical guide to defining 'circle of competence' using a 3-question test to avoid superficial analysis in value investing.

价值 / 回购
Post body

Buffett talks about "circle of competence" constantly. Most investors nod along and then ignore it completely, or apply it so loosely that it means nothing.

I want to try to make it actually useful.

What the concept is supposed to do

Circle of competence is a filter, not a trophy. Its job is to answer one question as quickly as possible: Can I evaluate this business, or am I just guessing?

The honest answer determines everything that follows. If you're inside your circle, your analysis is built on genuine understanding. If you're outside it, you're pattern-matching on surface details and calling it research.

The problem is that most investors define their circle too generously and never test whether the definition is real.

The two-minute test

Before spending any meaningful time on a company, I try to answer three questions out loud (not in writing, out loud):

  1. How does this business make money?
  2. Why will it still be making money in ten years?
  3. What would have to be true for it to fail?

If I can answer all three clearly, without reaching for jargon, I'm probably inside my circle. If I'm hedging, vague, or using industry terms I haven't fully unpacked, I'm not.

This sounds simple. It isn't. Most investors who try this discover their circle is significantly smaller than they thought.

What "inside your circle" actually requires

It doesn't mean you've read about the industry. It means you understand the business model well enough to have an informed view on its durability.

For a bank, that means understanding how net interest margin moves across rate environments and what that does to earnings. For a software company, it means understanding the actual mechanics of why customers renew. For a retailer, it means understanding the unit economics of a new location, not just the expansion story.

Reading an annual report gives you the facts. Being inside your circle means you know what to do with them.

The honest mapping exercise

I find it useful to write this down rather than carry it as a vague feeling. Three columns: businesses I understand well enough to evaluate durability (clearly inside), areas where I follow the logic but would need significant work before having genuine conviction (edge), and everything else (outside).

Most investors who do this end up with a much shorter first column than they expected. That's the point. A small, honest circle beats a large, imaginary one every time.

Why it matters more than people think

The circle isn't just about avoiding bad investments. It's about knowing when to have conviction.

A thirty percent drawdown in a business you truly understand is an opportunity to think clearly. The same drawdown in a business you half-understand is a crisis, because you don't know whether the thesis is intact or broken.

The real cost of operating outside your circle is that you won't know when you're wrong, which makes it impossible to respond correctly.

Curious how others think about this in practice. Do you have a formal way of mapping your circle, or is it more of an intuitive feel? And has it ever stopped you from buying something you later realised you didn't actually understand?

Discussion · top comments15 selected
u/Maximum-Cover-786 7· 5d ago

What I have experienced is thinking you know something about a business. Then investing in it only to find out there's a whole lot you didn't know about that business.

u/JamesWardVI 3· 5d ago

The gap usually only shows up after you’ve bought. which is the expensive time to find it.

u/eatingkiwirightnow 3· 5d ago

I think the biggest test is if right after buying a stock, it drops 20-30%, do I feel like I need to buy more or I begin to have trouble sleeping.

In my experience, the times where I had "circle of competence" or "conviction", I was bothered only by the fact that I didn't have more money to buy or daydreamed about getting in at the lower price instead.

The times where I didn't have enough understanding, I spent a lot of time worrying, doing deeper research which I should have done in the first place, only to find out about pitfalls that I wasn't aware of, and then wishing I had never got into the stock in the first place.

Then there are times where the situation just changed, new information came out and I was just shit out of luck and I need to take a loss. In this case, circle of competence no longer matters, because today's information >> yesterday's news.

u/JamesWardVI 3· 4d ago

"Circle of Competence" matters most when new information hits. if you understand the business, you can tell whether it breaks the thesis or is just noise. if you don't, you can't tell the difference...

and that's when people panic out of things they should hold, or hold things they should sell.

u/sandee_eggo 6· 5d ago

Which company’s robot helped you write this?

u/JamesWardVI 3· 4d ago

Yeah the Lynch misreading is everywhere. "invest in what you know" was never meant as a substitute for actually understanding the business. It's a starting point for finding ideas, not a reason to buy.

u/_hemisphere 3· 4d ago

I like your idea of litmus test. When the time comes to test you knowledge about the business is when there is an opportunity to buy more shares when the price goes down. This will test your conviction and how much you understand the business.

u/JamesWardVI 2· 4d ago

Exactly!!!

A 30% price drop tells you fast whether you understood the business or just liked the chart.

Easier said than done though, we´re all human and panic is real.

But that´s the discipline worth fighting for.

u/raytoei 3· 5d ago

Dear OP,

I do it completely differently from you.

I read “circle of competence” as a discipline process where I force myself to focus only on stocks on my watchlist. And I build my knowledge base on this stocks by not getting distracted by stocks from outside this list.

This way, I don’t suffer FOMO nor chase momentum.

——

u/JamesWardVI 3· 4d ago

That's exactly it. The Circle of Competence determines what´s getting on the list.

Therefore the watchlist for me, follows from circle of competence, once you know what you understand, you build the list from that. then you're just waiting for price, not chasing ideas.

u/JamesWardVI 2· 4d ago

That's a fair point; being aware of sentiment as a risk factor is different from chasing it.

One thing worth adding, though: value investing isn't only about buying way below intrinsic value. That's Graham. Buffett evolved it into finding wonderful businesses that are temporarily mispriced. The quality of the business is part of the margin of safety and needs to be fulfilled first.

On the covered calls, solid way to lower cost basis while you wait, but the risk is getting called out right before the real move starts. That's always the trade-off with that strategy.

u/PossibleSecretary524 2· 4d ago

there is a little difference between this and your three questions which i tried to point out : )

u/Groucho-and-Harpo 2· 5d ago

Thank you. This is really well written and provides a fresh perspective from OP who has put a lot of thought into into this.

But I need to be honest as a retail investor, this feels like a very daunting task…I’m just gradually increasing my investment while I learn because I blew up an account a few years ago. Basically losing a trickle here and there to gain experience :)

Seems two approaches help:

  1. Investing according to market sentiment.

Not your inflated self opinion.

  1. Avoiding the temptation to pile on risk.
u/JamesWardVI 3· 4d ago

Losing an account hurts a lot, but it's probably the best investing education there is.

I'd push back on market sentiment. It tells you what everyone else thinks, not what something is worth. For value investors those two things are usually going in opposite directions on purpose.

u/JamesWardVI 2· 3d ago

Glad it helped. Sounds like you've got a clear handle on your own risk, which is what matters most. All the best with it.