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r/investingr/investing· u/mushroomlove888· 3d ago 0

What's Preventing Another Lost Decade for Equities?

Investor summaryBearish

Author questions the risk of an equity 'lost decade' given historically high CAPE ratios, despite strong corporate earnings.

Bull points
  • Current corporate earnings and revenues remain strong, distinguishing the market from the dot-com bubble.
Bear points
  • Historical precedent shows it took nearly 13 years to recover from the 2000 S&P 500 peak.
  • Valuations are extremely high, with the CAPE ratio at its highest level ever.
SPY降息与宏观
Post body

If you bought at the peak of SP500 in 2000, it would take you almost 13 years to get back to the same 1500 level.

Your return is nearly 0% for 12 years. Maybe \~1% considering dividend compounding.

That remain the worst 12 year period for equity markets ever in recent years.

Not saying we are in the dotcom bubble as earnings/revenues are strong, but valuations are high if you look at CAPE ratio, it's the highest ever.

Why do people feel another lost decade won't ever happen again?

Discussion · top comments32 selected
u/Artist_Mic_Linder 70· 3d agoTop

I think your math is off. If you continously DCA when the market is crashing you'll get a lower cost basis over time, you'll be in the black long before 10 years. Also dividends is more than 1% over ten years.

u/ShartyMcFarty69 16· 3d ago

This, these posts are always hypothetical "what if you lump sum bought/sold at the absolute peak/trough". Like bro who is doing that... This whole post is pointing at the S&P not returning to ATH from 2000-2012, but completely ignores that the GFC happened in the middle of it too.

u/claretyportman 15· 3d ago

To be fair, there’s also a lot of posts that ask whether to dca or put in a lump sum and the dominant response is always ‘time in the market beats time in the market- put it all in now and ride it out’. So, that actually is often the advice here, rather than DCA

u/kinglallak 4· 3d ago

Lump sum beats DCA 2 out of every 3 times. But once people start putting money into the market, they usually continue to add after that.

u/get_it_together1 4· 3d ago

And most of the time that’s correct. You have to decide if you want lower average returns to avoid the risk that you happen to buy in at the all-time high.

u/ChaplnGrillSgt 1· 3d ago

The real correct answer is both. If you have a lump sum then invest now. But you should also be investing on a consistent schedule, too.

u/_WhatchaDoin_ 4· 3d ago

What if you are in retirement? How do you DCA additional money? Plan on some inheritance?

u/lee_suggs 3· 3d ago

This. Unless you're nearing retirement, you should be shoveling money into the market every two weeks and a sideways or down market for the next decade would be a best case scenario for many of the younger investors on this sub

u/immunologycls 1· 3d ago

Does this still apply if your contributions per year is about 2% of your assets?

u/wandererarkhamknight 27· 3d ago

If someone had a stable job, they might be able to contribute throughout the lost decade, ending up having a return of more than 1%. The whole idea of someone buying at the top, and not buying until it reaches the top again isn’t necessarily a practical one.

u/RadiatingMania 1· 3d ago

we are at the top now after quick run-up

u/wandererarkhamknight 1· 3d ago

We have been on a new top for a while now. As long as people are allocating their portfolios according to their risk tolerance and time horizon they should be mostly fine.

u/RyanCarter_Growth 15· 3d ago

nothing prevents another lost decade. It's entirely possible. That's one reason diversification, regular investing, and realistic return expectations are important. The strongest argument against a repeat isn't that it's impossible—it's that most investors aren't investing a lump sum at the exact market peak. Ongoing contributions during a flat or declining market can significantly improve long-term results.

u/Next_Permission3353 7· 3d ago

World markets haven't been flat for more than 3 years consecutively in the last, idk, 80 years... maybe don't just invest in SP500?

u/Admirable_Nothing 6· 3d ago

I expect we will see longer than a lost decade. But that really only adversely affects those that are retired or soon to be retired. Those that are regularly investing for retirement have two things going on. One is the performance of the assets they had before the bear market and those will certainly recover before you retire assuming you are 45-50 or younger. But the other thing that happens is that your continued investing is much more profitable as you spend that 10-15 year bear market buying equities on sale so you make excellent returns as the bear market morphs into a bull market. I was 55 in 2000. And yes the $600,000 I had invested in 2000 did lose money, in fact bottoming out at $225,000. However that $225,000 had regrown to $600,000 by the time I retired in 2015. But most importantly the $20,000 or so I was investing each year in my 401k between 2000 and 2015 bought a lot more stock than it would have if that bad market had not been happening. So by the time I retired I had more than enough money to retire. So don't worry about a bad marker, embrace it. It actually will work for you.

u/RadiatingMania 1· 3d ago

also affects 529 investors whose kids going to college next decade

u/Constant-Engineer910 1· 2d ago

I agree that those years away from retirement should "embrace it" as you say and continue investing as much as possible. This worked well for me for 40 years, starting in the mid-80s.

Any advice/recommendations/words of wisdom on how to navigate this uncertainty once you are retired or soon to be retired? (Last year I was laid off ...).

u/Admirable_Nothing 1· 2d ago

That is when you actually need an advisor as a 3 ETF all equity portfolio has to much risk for you in retirement. Personally, I moved to an all dividend portfolio for my equities and have a considerable amount of my money in CDs or HYSAs or govt money market funds, VFMXX and VUSXX. Dividend stocks tend to be lower PE multiples and tend to be larger older companies that have more stable futures.

u/kamakazekiwi 6· 3d ago
the worst 12 year period for equity markets ever in recent years.

That's not what "ever" means.

I don't think anyone actually feels like a lost decade will never happen again. In fact it's highly likely that it will. The problem, as with most questions along this line, is timing. The thesis for future underperformance based on high valuations has been true for a while. In fact, the forward P/E ratio of the S&P 500 is right around where it peaked back in 2015. Now, what would have happened if you sat out of investing for the last 10 years based on fear of poor returns?

u/Serpico2 6· 3d ago

Just speaking personally, and this is not financial advice, but this is why I’m not dumping my target date funds for pure VOO. I still only have 10% bonds but it’ll scale to 20% over the next decade and while bonds have taken a beating the last 20 years, some return is better than none in case the S&P, which as you say feels awfully overbought, has another decade of death.

The retort to what I just said is, historically, I have to invest 16% a year to retire with the same amount as someone in 100% equities who invests only 10% annually.

u/churningaccount 4· 3d ago

Nothing is preventing it.

If you regress against historical valuation data, some might say the odds are pretty high.

Just a note, though, with dividends reinvested you’d recover a bit faster than what you wrote in your post.

I think those that are arguing for no more “lost decades” mainly point to the government interventionism that has become common after 2008. Yields are more firmly controlled now with QE/QT, and it seems like the government is more and more willing to deficit spend to prop up the stock market specifically. Which, anecdotally makes sense given that more and more Americans each year are dependent on the market for their retirement.

But there’s also no guarantee that is sustainable in the long term.

u/Clearly-labeled 3· 3d ago

Now that Chuck Norris has passed away, absolutely nothing stands in the way of another lost decade.

Fact

u/Various_Couple_764 1· 2d ago

Since 1930 there have been 3 lost decades 5h30s, the 70s and 2000 to 2013. Each lost decade had different triggers and there have been no changes to laws that would prevent it. The market appears to have about a 30 year cycle. Long bear market of 10 to15 years, followed by 10 to 15 year bulll market. I cannot say it will definitely happen or when but history says it is about time for another lost decade.

u/jeffbellamy 1· 3d ago

Retired 9/1/2018 no bonds. Individual stocks

u/beerion 1· 3d ago

Keep in mind that dotcom was a product of very unfortunate timing.

It started with unprecedented valuations and a mania, followed by a major terrorist attack, followed by entering into a 15+ year war in the middle east, followed by the biggest credit event since the Great Depression.

And even still it was back to breakeven even by year 13. That's the definition of resiliency.

What if dotcom had they gotten a "ChatGPT moment" instead of 9/11?

u/Severe-Squash-7493 1· 3d ago

personally hope its not a slow drawn out process. Lets just pull the bandaid off and get it all over with.

In my mind I always think of morgan freemans speech at the end of deep impact and that we will bounce back (to steal gordon ramsays expression)

u/_WhatchaDoin_ 1· 3d ago

Funnily (?) enough, it is when the portfolio is hitting a new high (like during a massive growth) that people feel more comfortable retiring. Not after a major pullback.

u/hesuskhristo 1· 3d ago

I can see that. It's not smart, but I can see that.

u/_WhatchaDoin_ 1· 3d ago

When bonds are getting crushed by inflation and increased rates? (Don’t look at the perf of TLT for the past 7 years 🤣).

Thank goodness for VXUS though.

u/hesuskhristo 1· 3d ago

The S&P 500 the five years prior to 2000 was +155%, +28.5% annual return. If you planned in 1994 to retire in five years and were 60% S&P 500, your portfolio would have still more than doubled in those five years and you would have entered retirement in a way better position than you originally expected. As mentioned by many others, if you were still working and contributing from 2000-2012, you got 10% annual returns during that period due to "buying low" through that time

u/Ok_Seaworthiness5149 1· 3d ago

The burn rate math is the thing I can't get past. $30 billion over four quarters and then you raise $75 billion at IPO — that's not a war chest, that's about 2.5 years of runway if nothing changes. And capex isn't slowing down, xAI alone was $7.7 billion in just Q1 2026. At some point the Starlink revenue growth has to outrun the spending or this is just a very expensive bet on Elon finding a second gear.

The 95x revenue multiple is the other thing. I get that Starlink is genuinely impressive but 95x is pricing in a future that has to go basically perfectly. One bad quarter, one regulatory problem, one Elon distraction and that multiple compresses fast.

Not saying don't buy it. Just saying know what you're actually buying.

u/DaemonTargaryen2024 1· 3d ago

In theory, nothing. Plan accordingly. Too many people who've never seen a bear market think bonds are garbage.